How Community Shapes Your Mind, Body, and Well-Being

Mark Hyman, MD

Dr. Mark Hyman is leading a health revolution—one focused on using food as medicine to support longevity, energy, mental clarity, happiness, and so much more. Mark Hyman, MD is a practicing family physician and an internationally recognized leader, speaker, educator, and advocate in the field of Functional Medicine. He is the founder and director of The UltraWellness Center, Founder and Senior Advisor for the Cleveland Clinic Center for Functional Medicine, a fifteen-time New York Times best-selling author, and Board President for Clinical Affairs for The Institute for Functional Medicine. He is the founder and chairman of the Food Fix Campaign, dedicated to transforming our food and agriculture system through policy.

He is a co-founder and the Chief Medical Officer of Function Health. He is the host of one of the leading health podcasts, The Dr. Hyman Show with 150+ million downloads. Dr. Hyman is a regular medical contributor to several television shows and networks, including CBS This Morning, Today, Good Morning America, The View, Fox, and CNN.

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Full Transcript

Automatically generated. Please forgive any typos or errors in the following transcript. It was generated by a third party and has not been subsequently reviewed by our team.

Dr. Mark Hyman
It wasn't career achievement. It wasn't exercise. It wasn't a healthy diet that determined the quality and happiness of your life.

It was good relationships. Good relationships keeps us healthier and happier. Before we jump into today's episode, I want to share a few ways you can go deeper on your health journey. While I wish I could work with everyone one on one, there just isn't enough time in the day. So I built several tools to help you take control of your health.

If you're looking for guidance, education, and community, check out my private membership, the HymanHive, for live q and a's exclusive content and direct connection. For real time lab testing and personalized insights into your biology, visit Function Health. You can also explore my curated doctor trusted supplements and health products at doctorhymen.com. And if you prefer to listen without any breaks, don't forget you can enjoy every episode of this podcast ad free with Hyman Plus. Just open Apple Podcasts and tap try free to start your seven day free trial.

What do the longest living and most joyous people in the world have in common? Well, they all share one common trait, a sense of belonging, of community, of connection. You know, when we have a tribe to live on, when we are connected to others, when we have a sense of belonging, when we feel there's a worth outside of ourselves, we can really tap into an incredible array of our own inner pharmacy. Not the doctor's pharmacy, but our own inner biochemistry lab in our brain that regulates so much of our health. So when we're talking about today, it's how the strength of our relationships is one of the key factors, maybe the key factor in determining longevity.

I'll just tell you a quick story about a community I might've mentioned before, but it's Rosetta, Pennsylvania, and it was read about this years ago in one of Deepak Chopra's books. And they found that there was this tribe of, not tribe, a community of Italians that came over en masse from Italy, from this little town in Italy. And they were, you know, all different levels of society, wealth and, you know, achievement and success, at least monetarily. And but they all came over it. But the thing that was unique about them was that they had a deep sense of community.

And no matter what station in life you were or who you were, everybody celebrated everything together, all the holidays, all the birthdays and the weddings and the funerals, and everything was in community. And then when they came to The States, they adopted the same crappy lifestyle habits as Americans, but they didn't die at the same rate because they had this sense of connection. Now we know a lot about this research because the biggest one of the biggest factors in in terms of your risk for premature death is loneliness. Being lonely and socially isolated is equivalent to smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. That's really serious.

So biological aging as a result of all of our stressors and our psychological stressors and relational stressors, our lack of connection is really important. Lack of physical touch, lack of intimacy, there's a huge role. Not lack of being understood and seen and witnessed, There's a huge role in so much of the ailments that we're suffering, not just mental illness, but also physical illness and our longevity. So this whole idea of sociogenomics, I actually came up with this term years ago when I was in Haiti, and then it became part of medical literature, not not because of me, but because other people also started glomming onto it. And it was this idea that our social relationships and our social networks may be more important than our genetic connections in determining our health and our health outcomes.

And that that our lifestyle certainly influences our genes, but so does our social connections. Our relationships influence our gene expression. And it's really not an abstract theory or notion. It literally is biology. Our thoughts, our beliefs, our relationships, all drive real changes that we can measure in our gene expression that can turn inflammation, stress hormones.

So for example, you're having a conversation with somebody, if it's a loving, connected, intimate conversation, your anti inflammatory genes will turn on. Your healing and repair genes will turn on. Whereas if you're in a conflictual relationship or a conversation with somebody, you're gonna have your stress hormones increase. You're gonna have inflammation increase. You're gonna increase all sorts of bad things in your body that are produced by your body that cause harm.

So we have huge, huge, huge motivation, I think, to focus as a as a key part of our health strategy and just life happiness strategy, a a deep sense of community and making sure we build that. So our social connections, our community, our relationships, all are associated with long lifespan, with a better mental health, with improved physical health, things like blood pressure, waist circumference, body mass, inflammation. Now I was in Ikaria and Sardinia, which are two of the blue zones in the Kuwait Peninsula. And one of the things these communities have in common where people live to be longer than anywhere else, and I wrote a lot about this in Young Forever, my new book, was the power of community. They all were part of this fabric, and they all had their place.

They all had their role. They all had a meaning and purpose. Even if you're a 100 years old, I remember Julia was 103, she said. And she basically was still working at a 100 years old, making all sorts of wedding accoutrements, like doilies and little lace things. I don't know what they do ordinarily, but they it was kinda cool.

See, she was constantly working and making stuff for all these weddings and was still involved in in the community life. So I wanna share a little bit about a study that kinda reflects the power of this. And it was an eighty year study called the Harvard study of adult development, and it's been producing data on so many different things on on who lives longer, happier, healthier lives. And they wanted to understand not what makes people sick, but what makes people thrive, what makes them well. So what were the lessons from this study?

It was eighty four year study. Right? Long study. They were tracking the same people and over generations asking thousands of questions, hundreds of measurements to find out what really makes people healthy and happy. And they were giving these people were giving regular updates on their life, their health, their income, their employment, their marital status.

They filled out questionnaires and and were part of interviews where they revealed their fears and their hopes or disappointments or accomplishments or regrets, life satisfaction, and lots more. And this had a really incredible impact by providing lots of data. The researchers used this data to assess how people's lives, their experiences, their attitudes affect their well-being. And one of the thing that was so powerful from this study was was sort of surprising. It wasn't career achievement.

It wasn't exercise. It wasn't a healthy diet that determined the quality and happiness of your life. It was good relationships. Good relationships keeps us healthier and happier. That was powerful.

And the studies leaders that are I mean, obviously, the people started the study are dead. The current leader of the study, Robert Waldinger from Harvard and Mark Schultz, have a new book. It's called The Lessons from the World's Longest Scientific Study of Happiness. And it's a great book. I actually had Robert Waldinger on the podcast, The Doctors Pharmacy, and and you can learn more about the book and things there.

But what are the things that we can do? What are the lessons learned from the study about how do we improve the quality of our relationships? First, we have to look at ourselves, right? Who are we? What is our life like?

What are the choices we're making? How are we not prioritizing relationships? So we can get really busy. We can do all sorts of stuff that we think is helping us get ahead. We can spend too much time on social media, but we often don't really think about building and investing in the quality and the number of our relationships.

And for me, I know as a personally, that my relationships, my friendships, my community is the most important thing for me. It really is what keeps me grounded, keeps me healthy, keeps me happy. And and then more and more as I get older, I focus more on this as opposed to, like, when you have kids and a career and you try to just kinda get by. And it it's like sometimes friends can fall by the wayside, but it's really important to find and it even can be just one or two good friends. Makes It a huge difference.

Now when when these people in the study actually, were interviewed, they really actually benefit from these interviews because it helped them realize where they neglected their relationships, and then they considered sort of looking and finding, well, how can we improve that? So maybe took look at your own life. What's your social life like? What are the who are the people in your life that you care most about that you that you wanna have a relationship? About how they support you and how often you spend time together and maybe do a little bit of effort to actually focus on what matters to you most and help you make decisions that actually can enhance the quality and number of your relationships.

So maybe spend more time with people who who make you laugh and who elevate you and less time with people who drain you and are are, you know, energy saps. So I I, you know, I I I think it's important to to find friends and community members that help bring you up and not take you down. You know, sometimes you meet with people, all you wanna do is complain and go on and on about everything. And I think there, you know, there are there are other people who you when you're around them, you laugh, you have fun, you play, and it's just that's what you want. You know, prioritize your relationships.

We schedule in exercise. We make ourselves maybe time to make a healthy diet. We we focus on our career and work, but we don't focus on prioritizing those relationships that matter and being showing up and being present for us. Rather than zoning out on social media, you know, rather than like, you know, doing a million things at once, focus on on your relationships. You know, when during COVID, I I I think we all felt a little isolated.

And so I reached out to about six of my close male friends. And we all have known each other for forty often plus years, maybe thirty five. The small the fewest, I think, was twenty five years. And so we we've known each other, and we formed this group. And every every Tuesday at 06:00, we meet for an hour and a half and spend time together and share about our lives.

And it's been one of the most impactful things I've done. And it's something that you can do. You don't it doesn't take any organization. You just need a Zoom link or you know, it's really pretty easy. And you can have these deep connections and relationships that that allow you to be seen and known and and can really help activate so many healing pathways in your body.

Make time to talk to people. Right? And and it came in sometimes with small relationships that matter, but a study in the University of Kansas found that the simple act of just reaching out to somebody, a friend for conversation once a day, dramatically increases happiness and lowers their stress hormones. So hanging out with friends lowers your stress hormones. Pretty good.

And then also, it's not all about you. Right? So take time to ask questions. Find out what's exciting for them. Find out what they're struggling with.

Find out what makes them happy. Have them share their life with you and value their opinions. Be present, focus, and don't don't just kinda be superficial with them, but go deep. So maybe try to have one conversation a day and put that in your calendar and and see what the effects will be over time. Super important.

Next thing is be kind. You know, my grandmother used to ask my mother when she came home and said, I met this new friend. She says, are they kind? And I think kindness was such an important value in my family. And how do we be kind to each other?

And, you know, you know, the the, you know, the the the relationship happiness is determined by how you are in that relationship. And there was a research study in Michigan State that looked on data for for our 2,500 married couples, and they found they were you know, how good they were in five different dimensions. Were they extroverts? Were they agreeable? Were they conscientious?

Were they stable emotionally? Were they open to doing new things and experiences? And the ones who had higher levels of agreeableness and emotional stability also had higher happiness. So the more kind of kind and positive you were, the more likely you were to be happy. So people invest a lot of time in in finding someone who's perfectly compatible, but that might not be the whole story.

It's more about being kind to the people you care about and fostering those deep connections. Also, a friend of mine had a word that I really loved, which is called coptuitiveness, which is where you cop to it. If you screw up, if you make a mistake, you cop to it. And and it's really about learning to apologize, learning to to repair relationships, learning how to have nonviolent communication, and and, you know, owning your stuff. Like I said, also, a great way to build relationship is to ask questions.

Instead of talking about yourself, ask questions about somebody. Show that you care. Show that you're interested in in what they care about or thinking about. If someone wants advice, don't just give them your opinion. Ask them questions to guide them to the right answer that they know themselves.

Also, don't be shy about expressing your love. There are lots of ways to to love and lots of ways to express it. Maybe it's simple things. You know? I I had a a a flight that came in the other night late, and I usually take the Uber home.

And my partner, she showed up unexpected and picked me up at the airport. It was like just she brought me such joy and delight. It was such a simple thing. You know, we live ten fifteen minutes from the airport here. And it wasn't a big deal for her, but it made a huge difference in terms of my own happiness.

And it was really powerful. So help help your friends with a project. You know, ask them what they need to do, whether it's clean up the garage or work on a project together. Call an old friend. Maybe they haven't heard from you in a while.

Maybe you just wanna check-in on them. Ask them how they're doing. Maybe you wanna focus on on helping somebody who's trying to do something that, you know, may be difficult for them. Try to support them and and give them some love. Also, when you have a partner or a close friend, do little acts of kindness.

Give them a little gift. You know, buy them something they like. You know? Get them something that makes them smile. It can be super simple.

You know, when when you often don't do these acts, kinda life just it's a little bit flatter. And when you do them, it's super fun. Like like I said, when my partner picked me up the airport, it was like, wow. You know, I I got that she really cared. Also, tell people how they you feel about them.

Don't wait till their eulogy to to tell them all the things you like about them. Be specific. Give people feedback about what you love about them, what you like about them, what makes you happy, and how you feel in their presence. Who would you be without them? Who would you would you be now that you're with them?

What what do they inspire you to do? And and and thank them for for what they've, do and and and and how they show up for you. Don't be shy. Like I said, don't wait till someone's dead to write a eulogy about them. It's better to have eulogies when you're when you're alive.

And I, you know, I've actually, had a a group friend group where we would get together. And on people's birthdays, we would basically go around. And for everybody's birthday, we would share a little bit about what they're like and what we what we like about them, what we love about them, something that inspires us about them. And it's it's like it's like getting a living eulogy. It's pretty awesome.

Radha Agrawal
We are literally born inside of a mother's womb. So we are born in community and without it, cannot survive or thrive. And it's so clear that our lack of belonging or isolation is the actual essential issue that ladders down to every other societal problem that we are facing today. God's violence

Dr. Mark Hyman
I'll unpack that for us because it's a big statement that loneliness is a cause of so many societal Of

Radha Agrawal
every societal illness. So obesity epidemic, our lack of So

Dr. Mark Hyman
tell us how each one of Obesity because

Radha Agrawal
So being socially isolated is as harmful to your physical health as being an alcoholic and twice as harmful as obesity because, cellularly, we end up storing And again, you're the doctor here. But there's so much knowledge and studies around when you don't belong, all of a sudden your cellular reactions become slower. You're metabolizing food less fast. And there's actually a lot of studies that I've read around that.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Maybe you're depressed and anxious and using food as your source of

Radha Agrawal
Well that too. Of course, that too. But it actually sets off a cellular chain reaction. Our lack of belonging and isolation sets off this sort of cellular chain reaction that sort of slows down our metabolism as well. But also, every anxiety and depression, one in three college students are anxious or depressed today.

One of the reasons we launched Daybreaker on college campuses is because my fiance's little brother, three of his best friends commit suicide in college and turns out it's Wow. What's the word? It's contagious. And so he

Dr. Mark Hyman
It's true. Both positive and negative behaviors are contagious.

Radha Agrawal
Absolutely, exactly. And so we looked into it and we realized, Oh my gosh, there's such a huge issue on college campuses around drinking and binge drinking. So we wanted to create Debrecurrent College campuses to inspire connection without substances as well. So we're now on 15 campuses.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Since we're getting up at 06:00 to go dancing, we're gonna party too late.

Radha Agrawal
We start a little bit later because they're definitely not gonna come and we have to lure them with burritos, but it's cool. Okay.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Dancing with burritos.

Radha Agrawal
No. But I you know, and so, like, unpacking some more. Like, our political strife right now, you know, the the political polarization that we're facing today, you know, I think the Make America Great Again hats. You know, the red hats that people are wearing on the Republican side, it's a statement of connection and community. I'm a part of something.

And these are disenfranchised community members often who are being recruited, who are saying, Hey, join our barbecue. We're cooking for everybody. Here are some hats for you guys. And all of a sudden, I went from feeling like I don't belong to here's a community that really is welcoming me with open arms. The pipe bombers, all of the gun violence that we're facing today, many of whom are mentally have mental illnesses, well eighty five percent of people experiencing mental illness are isolated or alone.

And so because we ostracize them from society, they're not welcome because they're not mentally abled. So that piece of it only sort of creates that sense of anger. And so it's on each and every one of us to out there who's listening on this podcast right now to really make friends with everybody whether it's someone who's older than you, younger than you, someone who's mentally experiencing mental illness. How can we actually bridge those divides that every single human on this planet can belong? And so the cover of my book has a doorway on it because the concept of neighborhood, neighborliness is also lost.

I live in New York City. We live in New York City. Do you know your neighbors' names? Do you know the neighbor across the

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah, we just moved in.

Radha Agrawal
I don't know my neighbors. I've been there for three years. I've tried to make friends with them and there's sort of this don't talk to me type of thing. And so we're making a big effort. We have a welcome committee, like little figurines outside our door that says, Welcome to our home.

If you need salt, come and borrow it. And we're trying, but it's on all of us. Society needs to embrace the concept of neighborhood again.

Dr. Mark Hyman
I think if you're not need sugar, but if you need salt.

Radha Agrawal
Yes. Yeah. Exactly.

Jeff Rosenthal
No sugar.

Dr. Mark Hyman
You're not gonna get a bag of white sugar

Jeff Rosenthal
at 05:06.

Radha Agrawal
Definitely. Yeah. So but but I think, you know, community if The most generous act we can do as human beings is to create community. The most generous thing we can do for ourselves and for each other is to extend our hand and say, Hey, will you be my friend? So that's true for me when I turned 30 years old, I looked at myself in the mirror and I realized I didn't belong.

And that was the beginning of my journey to community.

Dr. Mark Hyman
That's the first do you imagine that? Page of my

Radha Agrawal
Yeah. In my twenties, I spent sort of sleepwalking. I was in sports bars watching football, drinking beer that I didn't wanna drink, and trying to be cool and relevant, and hanging out with what I thought society, know, sort of deemed as cool, like going to clubs and getting drunk and blacking out all the time because I'm Asian and I can't handle my liquor. And and then at 30 years old, woke up and I had this like, woah, moment where I was just like, what have I been doing? Like, who am I?

And that the light in my eyes was dim. And I just could

Dr. Mark Hyman
Hard to imagine.

Radha Agrawal
I mean, right? But in this last Like, nine years

Dr. Mark Hyman
headlight high beams shining in the world.

Radha Agrawal
Well, this is the last nine years. Right? Like, we totally And and you know, you're such a you know, you're such a dear friend now. And my Our community is what gives us that life. And so from 30 to 35, Mickey and I spent all of our effort and time focusing on community.

And I created all these exercises for myself. In my book, talk about going in. You have to go in first to belong to yourself. So often with community building, we're grasping outside of ourselves to find those friends. But it really starts with this journey of self exploration first to get to know who we are, what we value, what we can bring to a community and how we're showing up.

How are we at listening, how are we at connecting with everyone around

Dr. Mark Hyman
us? It's almost like focusing on not only how to find a friend, but how to be a friend.

Radha Agrawal
Yes. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So the first half of my book really challenges the reader in a gentle and loving way to go inside and ask themselves, How are we showing up? And how can we try to light on ourselves first in a beautiful way, in a glorious way before we go out?

I think so much of self help today also, it traps us. Get trapped in self help. We get trapped in personal development. That we forget that the whole point of personal development is to do what? Is to better relate to the outside world.

Right? Go inside

Dr. Mark Hyman
It's self care, but it really should be we care.

Radha Agrawal
Yeah, Right? Exactly. It's like, I'm going to get a massage. I'm going to take care. I'm going to eat healthy so that I can take care of my children better.

I can serve my community better. So that I can show up for the world better. And yet we forget that. We just get trapped in the look at me selfie moments without realizing that that's actually the the sort of the ladder down to isolation, loneliness, and sadness. Mhmm.

Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman
So in in Okinawa, which is one of the longest lived people in the world, they form a community at birth of babies that are kinda connected by their parents that go through life together and go through all the ups and downs and trials and tribulations from birth to, like, a 100 years old. And it builds a sense of and it's not like a 100 people. It's like five people or four people. And it's, you know, most people can't even say there's one friend they have that they can call up when they feel bad or sad, who they can have a honest transparent conversation to. That's really heartbreaking, and it's so much of a driver of of somebody else's side.

It's something people don't talk about. And it's what, you know, when we were with Rick Warren and Saddleback Church, I had the insight, of using the power of community to help people create health. So suicide is contagious, but health is contagious.

Radha Agrawal
That's right.

Dr. Mark Hyman
And obesity is contagious, but so is, you know

Radha Agrawal
Good health.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Good health.

Radha Agrawal
Happy living.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Right. And I think that's such an important thing you're creating in the world. This is call to belong, and not only to to belong, but actually you've created a very specific road map. So I wanna get into that now. You've talked about going in to go out.

So let's talk about going in and what that means and how do you do that?

Radha Agrawal
Right. So I have about 20 exercises in my book that really take you by the hand. The whole point is to get dirty in this journey of self exploration and have fun. But going in starts with first an audit of who are you spending your time with. Just take a moment to write down who are the people I'm spending my time with today?

At work? At home, around me, family, friends, relatives. Who are all the people you're spending your time with? And just write that down on a piece of paper and take a look at this map. And this map will begin to and what I like to do is color code it.

So work friends, I'll color code in green. Right? And family, I'll color code in red. And friends that I choose, I'll color code in orange. Right?

So different colors. Just to sort of see, cool. And then I have this kind of axis of energy that I created in my book, in chapter one, or in part one of the book, where you sort of assess, Okay, who are the community members who are bringing me up? And who are the community members in my life who are bringing me down? So looking around, you begin to see, ah, cool.

So in all the green quadrant is up and to the right, so therefore I realize that my work life is very positive. I have very positive community at work. But then maybe there's more red dots around family and friends in the negative quadrants. So you're like, Ah, okay. Need to really understand and assess what's happening in my family life so I can really heal that or support that or ask myself you know, how do I connect and handle family members?

And we've all know, we all we all we're all we all go through that. And so really looking

Dr. Mark Hyman
Although I know your family, they're all pretty awesome.

Radha Agrawal
You know, we Dad, we all mom's Japanese. My dad's. Yep.

Dr. Mark Hyman
My sister's a doctor, and then your sister's, you know

Radha Agrawal
Well, know, it's and culturally, it's interesting. Right? Like, you know, my father and mother are most some of the most loving community builders. I know, in fact, they modeled what community looks like for us. Yet it's interesting because culturally, talking about love and sex and different you just don't talk about those things with your Asian parents.

And so, on one hand, they're the best community villagers I've seen. On the other hand, I do long for a little bit more emotional

Dr. Mark Hyman
Honesty.

Radha Agrawal
Honesty, yeah. But I think, again, we all have those sort of issues. I'm going through the motherhood process right now. I'm seven months pregnant. I keep asking myself every day, what kind of parent do I want to be?

Anyway, plotting this graph, you begin to sort of see a pattern of, Ah, okay. Cool. So here is my entire life map and it begins to give you a sort of the beginning of that story. And then from there, you ask yourself, Why am I spending my time with these people? Are they grandfathered in?

Are I making excuses? Am I being lazy? Is it just easier to keep them around? You know, what is it? Are they I not have

Dr. Mark Hyman
energy givers or energy suckers?

Radha Agrawal
That's right. Exactly. Can I be honest and vulnerable with that person and share, Hey, listen? This is how I'm feeling right now in this relationship and it's not working for me. I'm really wanting to spend time with more positive forces.

I'm going through pregnancy right now and I don't necessarily I just wanna spend just some more time connecting with the joy in my life. Things like that. Being more honest and vulnerable and I've had those conversations. And it's wonderful. Either it becomes a mirror for that person to say, Oh, wow.

I realize I'm not showing up the way you want me to. Or they say, Okay. I totally understand and let's reconnect after you give birth. So I think that there's that honesty piece there that we forget. We end up just ghosting our people in our lives.

We end up running away or we end up shit talking and it ends up being a very negative experience. Saying sort of This isn't the time to spend time with somebody right now because I want to level up with my is community the best thing you can do for yourself and for your friend too. Because they will begin to see how they're showing up. And hopefully they'll go on the self exploration too.

Dr. Mark Hyman
So rather than just cut them off, just have a real That's honest conversation with right.

Radha Agrawal
That takes courage and vulnerability on all of our ends but it doesn't create resentment on the other side that leads to negative storytelling and hurt and all other sort of larger issues. So So

Dr. Mark Hyman
that's the first step in going first step is taking inventory.

Radha Agrawal
Yeah. Taking inventory. Exactly. Auditing community who you spend time with. The second thing that I this what I did when I turned 30 and this exactly what I outlined in my book is my own journey that's taken me from feeling like I don't belong to this incredible, connected, joyful community that gives me wings and lets me fly.

The second thing I did was I wrote down a three column list, we'll get into in just second. Column one was all the qualities I was looking for in a friend. So I just wanted to write down and actually manifest and call in what were the qualities I was looking for in a friend? We do this type of audit again for our romantic relationships. We do this for our professional careers.

I want a job that pays this much. I want a job that has this type of vacation. I want a job that right?

Dr. Mark Hyman
All different things It's interesting in planning, it's not a category. It's like Why not? Love, work, money, like friend is not a category.

Radha Agrawal
And it is the most important. When I say the most important category in life to focus on and everyone says focus on money, power, fame and building your business but really none of it will happen or will result in joy or joyful life experience if you don't have a community being like, Oh my gosh, Mark, high five. Woah, we get to celebrate your major win, New York Times bestseller list again? Holy shit, let's go and throw a giant party for you. You know what I mean?

Yeah. If you're just kind of like writing by yourself in your room and have no one to celebrate then at the end of it, you're empty again, you know? So it's so critical that we continue to put our laptops down and keep our word and go to those dinners with our friends and say yes to the dance floor and say yes to adventure because at the end of the day, no matter no amount of success will mean anything if there's no one to celebrate it with.

Dr. Mark Hyman
True.

Radha Agrawal
Column one was all the qualities I was looking for in a friend. Right? So I wanted friends who talked about ideas and not each other. I wanted friends who said, yeah, can bleed that out, to life. I wanted friends who really took care of themselves and took care of each other.

I wanted friends who were interesting and interested, right? Who were good listeners. I wanted friends Yeah, just So I wrote down everything I was looking for in a friend which was kind of vulnerable because there's so much shame around saying I don't belong or there's so much shame around writing down the qualms. It just feels desperate for reason in today's society. If we just remove Not really.

Right? That's what I'm saying, if we removed all of that stigma because there is stigma around FOMO, right? Fear of missing out and fear of being left out. You don't tell people like, yeah I was left out from the party and it really hurt. We're so proud.

We don't really talk about that, right? But faux blow is a concept I'm talking in my book quite a bit which is fear of being left out, which is a more subversive negative version of FOMO. And then JOMO is joy of missing out which is the joy of missing out and having the confidence to know there's other things to do. Yeah. But so column so column two is all the qualities I don't want in a friend.

Right? So I don't want friends who are negative Nellies, Lazies, shoulder shruggers

Dr. Mark Hyman
Debbie Downer.

Radha Agrawal
Debbie Downers, Netflix and you know chill watchers all the time and homebodies. Like I wanted friends who are just like you know really Say

Dr. Mark Hyman
yes to life.

Radha Agrawal
Say yes like and I call it FYF in my book it's a

Dr. Mark Hyman
very And then somebody else might want a friend who they can sit around and do

Radha Agrawal
knitting That's right. What I'm saying. Your qualities are gonna be very different from my qualities whoever's listening out there. Right? And that's exactly what you wanna do right now is ask yourself where do I feel the most energized?

And then column three, perhaps the most important column was all the qualities that I need to embody in order to attract the friends that I want. All the qualities that I need to embody. So I need to be less of a workaholic. I love my work. I need to put my laptop down.

I need to be less judgmental and nitpicky and perfectionist. I'm a CEO. I run companies for a living and so my job is to focus on what's going wrong. My job is to focus on how to improve what's going wrong. So if I bring that, I used to bring that into my relationships, into my friendships.

I'd be nitpicking what's going wrong in those relationships instead of being grateful for what's going right. That sort of

Dr. Mark Hyman
understanding Shifting your frame of

Radha Agrawal
it. Yes, that compartmentalization of in my work I'm gonna be focused on really wanting to improve service and product and whatever but in my personal life to really compartmentalize and say, Hey wait, let me really focus on what's going right. Especially as an Asian woman, you grow up in a household where it's like you're only loved if you get an A. A plus. You

Dr. Mark Hyman
did alright you went to Cornell and you were on a varsity soccer team. But

Radha Agrawal
yeah so I think it's so important to take that audit you know and look in the mirror and ask yourself you know how are you showing up for your friends too. So that was a really

Dr. Mark Hyman
important So that's going in is doing an inventory of your life and what matters looking at yourself.

Radha Agrawal
Yeah looking at yourself.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Where you're not the best friend and what you want

Radha Agrawal
is That's right. Qualities looking

Dr. Mark Hyman
So what what else is part of going in?

Radha Agrawal
So going in, there's also another exercise I do and there's so many more about share one more

Dr. Mark Hyman
By way, the book is full of these amazing practical exercises. It's not like, oh, you should be in a community and you should go have friends and it's like a road map step by step to take you through the process of how do you create community capacity in yourself and how do you build and find community. And it's really, really awesome.

Radha Agrawal
Thank you. And I illustrated the book too, so every page is fun to read.

Dr. Mark Hyman
It's not a bunch of words, it's very,

Radha Agrawal
I really like pictures and colors and it just makes the whole journey of community building a lot more playful and colorful.

Dr. Mark Hyman
So what are the other going ins?

Radha Agrawal
So yeah, so one more going in exercise I'll share before we move on to going out is I have you also assess what I call your via chart. So it's imagine a three sort of Venn diagram, three circles that you draw. So circle one is your values. The V in via is your values. The I in the Via chart is your interests.

And the A is your abilities. So just write down your values, your interests, and your abilities in three concentric circles. And sit down with yourself and ask yourself, Today, Mark Hyman, what do I value today? Because what you value today is going to be different than what you valued maybe ten years ago. Maybe ten years ago you're a big party animal, then now

Dr. Mark Hyman
That's You

Radha Agrawal
still are. Mean, I know, nothing has changed, still see a burning man fist pumping on the dance floor. But today, maybe you just got married to a beautiful wife, you're nesting, you have a house in New York now and so maybe your values today is more family driven, whereas ten years ago it might have been different. I'm seven months pregnant today as well, so my values are different. And values are sort of kind of the guardrails through which you live your life.

Know, What are the things that matter to you? And you can Google values and see what values come up. There's all kinds of lists that come up. In my book, I list out about 100 values that you can choose from. But it's also something you can find on the internet and can begin to sort of map out, What do I care about today?

And really sit with yourself and connect to that essence. So write that down in one circle and that will give you again the beginning of a roadmap for the type of other people that you want to connect Like what are the you know, so shared values are so critical. Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah.

Radha Agrawal
And then the I is

Dr. Mark Hyman
As if you name it, you identify others. Right?

Radha Agrawal
That's right. Exactly. And then the I in in your via chart is your interests. So so what am I interested in today? So, you know, it's different from your values.

And your values is more sort of kind of intrinsic qualities family, community, work, life balance, that sort of thing. Right? Whereas your interests might be things like hiking, and yoga, and mindful meditation, and music festivals Daybreaker. And Daybreaker. Yeah, thank you.

And all kinds of right? So it's what are you interested in tangibly doing today? Some people I do this workshop with will say, Well, I don't know. I don't we all have interests. Right?

So dig deep. If if, you know, if you don't have an interest right now, then start cultivating them. You know? And that's and that's that's what's so fun about this going in journey is that life is we have a hundred years to live on this planet. Let's really begin cultivating our interests that are outside of just one.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Only a hundred years if you eat right and follow my advice connect in the community and follow Radha's advice then you get to a 100.

Radha Agrawal
Exactly, if you read all of Mark's books, yeah for sure. And then your abilities are and I really think about abilities through the lens of what can you bring to your community? So what are your abilities not just like I'm a good public speaker but what can you bring to your community? Are you is one of your abilities to ask amazing questions? Is one of your abilities to cook?

Are you a good cook and chef? Can you cook for your friends? What was one your abilities? To gather people in your home. Is your home a really wonderful place to gather?

Know one of my

Dr. Mark Hyman
I feel you're a great DJ.

Radha Agrawal
Exactly, exactly. So like two of my friends, I love giving this example, one of them she always has a purse full of like electric candles so that when you know she really she doesn't like neon lighting so she'll walk into any room and she'll just be like, Oh no no no this is like too harsh lighting. She'll turn off all the lights and break out all these electric candles and like vibes out the place instantly and it's incredible. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman
And you have these other friends who are great, sort of artists, musicians

Radha Agrawal
Exactly. Play

Dr. Mark Hyman
great things and do skits and

Radha Agrawal
That's exactly right.

Dr. Mark Hyman
So fun.

Radha Agrawal
Yeah. So they bring instruments like Eli and I bring gold stars often to gatherings and we'll say, Mark, you did great. It was a wonderful thing you just said, here's a gold star for you.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Right.

Radha Agrawal
You know, we went to the hospital when Eli's father was sick and we gave all the doctors and nurses gold stars and said, thank you for what you're doing. Great job checking his pulse.

Dr. Mark Hyman
And he looked at you like, What the

Radha Agrawal
And they all started competing with each other for how many The doctors, serious doctors competing with each other for how

Dr. Mark Hyman
many It's kindergarten.

Radha Agrawal
Yeah, for how many gold stars they got in there, and they put in their badges. It was this hysterical experience. And we turned this sort of otherwise scary place into a a playground. And Yeah. You know, it's whatever we can bring that feels good for us, that feels natural to us.

Bring that to your community and your experience, and write that in your abilities chart.

Jeff Rosenthal
We often think of ourselves as what we're into, not what we do. Like, we we like to judge ourselves by our interests and our actions. And so I think what you do is a better measure of who you are, like, how do you actualize the things that you say that you're into? And it's so hard, especially when it's, like, against your your your, you know, brain, like, not eating sugar, you know, stirred meal or whatever when you have the cake in front of you, that kind of thing.

Radha Agrawal
Yeah.

Jeff Rosenthal
And when it comes to community, when it comes to friendship, you know, like, you you need to actually do the thing. So you said, you know, like, the best way to be invited to the party is to host the party. Well, that's exactly right. And every community has someone that makes it their charge to gather and organize that community to bring people together. And so that's the first step.

And then I think that part of the work is on yourself. Like, if you wanna build community in any space, if you wanna have friends that have certain traits or that or expertise or interests, you have to be interesting in that space. So, like, you know, for for you, I think that if I had literally just no interest whatsoever in the things that you do and are passionate about, it would probably be an odd friendship and vice versa. Right? It would just be like, okay.

Nice enough guy, but, like, I gotta be a

Radha Agrawal
dumb friend.

Jeff Rosenthal
So I gotta start spending time together and hanging out. But if I, you know like, I imagine you talk to people who who, you know, are huge fans of your work and have read every one of your books, but they don't they're not coming up with questions to the the ideas, the big ideas. If if so for me, you know, if you're saying, like, how did it start? Like, how do we begin? It's not about how we maintain relationships now.

It's how, like, when you're when you have, you know, a couple friends, you're not in a particular field, you don't have cool you know, the cool people around you who can help you build and grow your life. You know, I love that the word enthusiasm, the word is enthios. It means with him. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. And if you can find your enthusiasm and you can learn in enthusiasm, then it's not work. And then you can become great at something. Then you can become knowledgeable at something. And start collecting the questions that you have, and then ask your stupid questions to really knowledgeable people when you get the opportunity, and it's fun for them.

That's it. Yeah. That's the whole ballgame. Now you're a fun friend. Now you're interesting to talk to.

And then you take that next step, which is, like, you know, all you can't take it personally. People are busy, but if I ask you, you know, five times to go and do something interesting, whether it's a a small gathering with other people or go for a hike or do whatever, It's just, again, like I I guess I'll end with this to this particular question. There's a there's a we talk about it in the book. There's a guy named Michael Heb. He's a dear friend of ours.

He's like, know, there's a artist around the table. He he's the one who said that, you know, the table is the grace greatest piece of human technology ever created. And the first time I met him yeah. And and the first time I met him, he pulled we were chatting. He was like, hey, Rad.

You know, sometimes people say, keep it real. I was like, yeah. Oh, yeah. Duh. He's like, do you keep it real?

Radha Agrawal
Like,

Jeff Rosenthal
yeah, bro. I keep it real. He's like, yeah. Don't do that. What you need to do is keep it surreal and just do things a little bit beyond other people's imagination.

Just a little bit of surprise. This is not like rocket science. We don't need you to paint a boss yet. We just need you to meet this trust.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. It's so great. You're of talking about really a key part of building friendships and relationships is being interested and curious. And it reminded me of my mother who said to me, not what did you learn in school today, but what questions did you ask? And so I was always the annoying kid in class.

Jeff Rosenthal
Guys, your mom sounds brilliant, by the way.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Who asked all sorts of questions. I was a kid in medical school who sat in the front row and wouldn't leave till I understood everything and asked every question I had. And and I do that all the time because I I wanna learn. You know? I think I think I read in your book in the review.

We have we have two ears and one mouth, and we should use them in that ratio. You know? Indeed. And I I think that's exactly right, and that that's how you build connection and community. I wanna say

Jeff Rosenthal
just but but before you move on, when you say that quote, two ears, one mouth, totally agree, but you also have to use your mouth. You can't just use your ears only. Right? And I would imagine that there are people in that class of yours who are like, man, Mark is annoying. Wish this guy would be annoying.

Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I'm sure that but but I'm sure there were way, way, way more who were like, man, so appreciated that Mark asked that question I wouldn't have asked, but that question I wouldn't have thought of. And so now everybody else has a a fuller knowledge of this topic.

Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman
If you love this podcast, please share it with someone else you think would also enjoy it. You can find me on all social media channels at Doctor Mark Hyman. Please reach out. I'd love to hear your comments and questions. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the doctor Hyman show wherever you get your podcasts.

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