Office Hours: If Your Body Does THIS, Your Cells Could Be Failing — And You’d Never Know

Mark Hyman, MD

Dr. Mark Hyman is leading a health revolution—one focused on using food as medicine to support longevity, energy, mental clarity, happiness, and so much more. Mark Hyman, MD is a practicing family physician and an internationally recognized leader, speaker, educator, and advocate in the field of Functional Medicine. He is the founder and director of The UltraWellness Center, Founder and Senior Advisor for the Cleveland Clinic Center for Functional Medicine, a sixteen-time New York Times best-selling author, and Board President for Clinical Affairs for The Institute for Functional Medicine. He is the founder and chairman of the Food Fix Campaign, dedicated to transforming our food and agriculture system through policy.

He is a co-founder and the Chief Medical Officer of Function Health. He is the host of one of the leading health podcasts, The Dr. Hyman Show with 150+ million downloads. Dr. Hyman is a regular medical contributor to several television shows and networks, including CBS This Morning, Today, Good Morning America, The View, Fox, and CNN.

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Full Transcript

Automatically generated. Please forgive any typos or errors in the following transcript. It was generated by a third party and has not been subsequently reviewed by our team.

Dr. Mark Hyman
Think of your memory as like the antenna, as the barrier, as the receptor, as a sort of communication hub of your body. And so it has to be beautiful and working well. And and when the memory's not working well because of these damaged membranes, because of toxins, and all these things we mentioned, then your cells just don't do the work that they're supposed to do, and you end up with abnormal signals in the body, and that translates into symptoms and disease. Welcome back to Office Hours. Today, I'm here with my producer again, Emma, and we're gonna go deep into cellular health and talk about something I've been thinking about a lot lately, membrane health.

Emma (Producer)
This is definitely one of those topics that sounds a little abstract at first. We hear a lot about our heart health, gut health, brain health, but not nearly as much about the membranes that are surrounding every cell in our body. So what I wanna understand today is why these membranes matter so much. What happens when they aren't functioning properly, and whether there are actual things we can do to improve their health. So, Mark, let's start with why this is on your radar right now.

After decades of practicing functional medicine, what's changed in the science or in the way that you're thinking about health that has made you so focused on cell membranes?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, membranes have always been something I've thought about. And, you know, in functional medicine, we talk about structural integrity as one of the key foundational physiological systems. And that means everything from your cell membranes, even your mitochondrial membranes, all the way to your biomechanical structure. And the reason membranes are so important is the interface for cellular communication. It's where all the messages go back and forth between cells that run everything in your body.

So it determines what's happening in your body. And without having healthy cell membranes, you can't really be healthy. Without having healthy mitochondrial membranes, you can't be healthy. And so there's a lot of research on this lately that's it's emerging around how important these membrane are and how often dysfunctional they are and how damaged they are because of our diets, because of lack of certain nutrients, because of low levels of omega threes in our in our diet, low levels of choline, which are really key ingredients for healthy cell membranes. And if you don't have healthy cell membranes, your cells can't receive the messages.

They can't filter them. They can't process them. They can't receive the signals from other cells. And and you're end up with basically kind of static in your biology instead of healthy optimal communication between cells.

Emma (Producer)
This

Dr. Mark Hyman
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Emma (Producer)
What makes you so interested about this right now? What's kind of changed in your thinking over the thirty plus years that you've been practicing functional medicine?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, I just see how critical they are for health and that they've been really neglected as a key interface in the world. And I and I think membranes are really important. Your gut membrane is important. In other words, interface from your gut to your inside world, your membranes, cell membranes are important. Your brain, blood brain barrier is important.

The interfaces are really important. It's where the body actually is is regulating everything that's going on in your system. So without healthy cell membranes, without healthy gut barrier membranes, without healthy blood brain barrier membranes, your biology starts to go into this chaotic, cacophonic, non harmonious communication system, and that translates as disease. I think it's it's becomes more and more important particularly as we age because some memories become damaged as part of the aging process, but it can be modified and it can be it can be addressed and fixed.

Emma (Producer)
So you've mentioned briefly before that about... A bit about what they're doing, but I wanna go eve... Even deeper. I wanna pretend I'm in high school biology. What is a cell membrane actually doing?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Basically, your cell membranes is a... They call it a phospholipid bilayer. So there's basically a kind of proteins on the end and fats in the middle. And and it basically protects the cell from things that it shouldn't be getting in, but also acts as a a way for proteins to lodge in there and communicate by translating messages from different protein signals, from hormones, from different signaling molecules, from immune molecules, and all those have to be transmitted through this membrane. And so, you know, it basically acts as as a place for cell receptors where where...

And when you think about it, it's kinda crazy. There's billions of chemical reactions every second of the body, trillions maybe. And and everyone has to occur in the right way. It has to be communicated to the cells. It has to go inside the cells.

It has to communicate with the DNA in the cells. It has to change protein function. So these these communication systems are really essential to health. And if you don't have this fundamental membrane health, then all the subsequent steps falter and you end up in in poor health. So this is really the the foundation of good health, and it's something that's really been neglected in medicine.

We don't talk about it. We don't really study it. We kinda learn about this phospholipid bilayer in in in college and medical school, but it's it's kind of not a therapeutic target. But we need to have the right phospholipids, which is things like phosphocholine, phospholipid, which are important. Phospholipid in mem...

Lipids in the membrane. And you also need omega three fats, and that creates fluidity and and health of the memories. For example, if you have a membrane that's made up of omega three fats versus trans fat like shortening, your cells will communicate better. When you have trans fat in your membrane, it's like stiff and rigid and hard, and it... And your can't...

Your cells can't properly communicate. And it's... Is this really important for for overall health? And if you don't have this, your health breaks down.

Emma (Producer)
So you you mentioned at the end there, is there anything you wanna add about what does a healthy membrane actually need? And to contrast that, is there such thing as a unhealthy cell membrane?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. I mean, one of the things we do in functional medicine is I do diagnostic tests looking at fatty acids. And I can tell if there's odd chain fatty acids or funny looking fats, let's call them funny looking fats that are making up your cell membranes because they shouldn't be there. And these odd chain fatty acids cause disruption in cellular communication. It often happens with toxic overload.

Toxins get embedded in your membranes. In fact, you know, toxin, treating mold can interrupt these intracellular organelles called peroxisomes that actually make the lipid, the phospholipids that you get from your raw materials of what your diet is, they make those fats into the membrane. So the membranes are constantly turning over and we're constantly have the little factory inside the cells that makes the lipids. If those peroxisomes are damaged by toxins or mold, you will create these funny looking fats. So you'll have strange non functioning membranes or poorly functioning membranes, so you end up with sickness, with illness of all sorts.

And I think this is something most doctors don't understand. It's something that's modifiable through interventions that help membrane health, whether it's omega threes. I mean, ninety five percent of Americans don't have omega three index over eight, which is the optimal level. And I think fifty percent have one that's lower than four percent, which is really bad. And lower your omega three index is very high risk for cardiovascular disease and and other other issues like omega three deficiencies can lead to dementia, depression, contribute to ADHD, bipolar disease, many, many problems with cell communication, particularly brain function.

Emma (Producer)
I wanna dive deeper into diet. So what is the fat that I eat? What does that have to do with my cell membranes?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Well, basically, you are what we eat, Emma. We all are what we eat. So if we're eating junk, like we're eating trans fats, we're eating oxidized oils, and this is a problem. Whole seed oil thing is not is not the seed oils of the problem. It's that it's that they're often oxidized or they're essentially rancid, and they're...

They can become problematic. It also is a ratio of of these fats. You know, it's it's important to have these omega six fats that come from seed oils, but you also have to have the omega threes. And most of us are are very deficient or low in omega threes that have an excess of these omega sixes. So it's not that they're bad, it's just the ratio matters.

And and so we end up with these very high levels of dietary omega sixes or even oxidized versions and that can create damaged membranes. We don't have enough of omega threes in our diet. We don't have enough choline which comes from eggs and soy and other other foods. We don't have enough of of the right phospholipids that actually are really key. And things like olive oil, saturated fats are all important and construct the membrane.

But if you don't have the right memories, all of your inflammatory signals go off, all of your your... We call prostaglandins, so we try and see the regulators of inflammation in your body are all determined by the fatty acids in your membranes. And if you don't have the right fatty acids and you don't have the right fats, then your cells don't work. So we are what we eat and you wanna eat good fats. You wanna have olive oil, avocados, and that's the seeds.

I mean, seeds is fine. Like seed oil is like people say, seeds are great and you can get some seed oils are fine if they're if they're properly made from, for example, expeller pressed or cold pressed or they're organic and so forth. It's these industrial oils that are really the problem. So I I think we have to look at the full composition of the fats in our diet and include all the fats, saturated fats, omega six fats, omega three fats, choline. These are really important, and this is what your body uses inside the cells to reconstruct the membrane and to rebuild the membrane.

Once it's turned over, it needs to be rebuilt. And if we're making it from crappy fats, that's gonna affect our self functioning and our health.

Emma (Producer)
You mentioned omega threes there. Can you go deeper into what these omega threes are doing inside the membrane?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. I mean, omega threes have a broad range of effects, and and they're they're structural components, and they... They're fluid. Why do why do fish have omega threes? Because they're in cold water and these fats need to say fluid in a cold.

There's a... They had butter or coconut oil that would get hard in the cold, but but these omega threes create mimic fluidity which helps memory function. They also regulate, as I said, a whole inflammatory cascade. So they regulate the inflammation through things called prostaglandins, leukotrienes that are made through these various enzymes that are in the cell membrane to regulate inflammation in the body. So they're really a key mark...

Biomarkers of inflammation control. They're also really important for brain health. They're important for membrane function in the brain. They just... They're reducing inflammation in the body.

They're helping cardiovascular health. They help reduce risk of many many diseases including mental health issues. And so so it's really important to try to get your omega threes from fish, ideally small fish. I call it the smash fish, a salmon, mackerel, anchovies, sardines, herring. These are small fish, they're rich in omega threes, they often have vitamin d as well.

And they have tend to have lower toxin levels. I also recommend a company called Ztopia. Fish that has very much, done a hard... The hard job of testing their products for microplastics and heavy metals and toxins and they... It's a regeneratively raised farm raised fish, but farm raised can be good or bad depending how you do it.

You know, you know, you can have a regenerative bison farm that's good, and that's kind of farm raised, or you can have factory farms which are very very bad. So I think it's the same with fish and we need to, you know, source our fish in the right place. We also I think should be taking omega threes as well. I think most people need to look at their omega three index. We test this and function as part of the basic foundational panel.

We probably... We have the largest data set on this I think ever. I think we've got... Know, we have over 600,000 people who've who've done this. And you know, we we literally had quests had to buy new machines in order to handle the volume of omega three testing for doing.

But it's such a you know, such a new thing that people are checking it. And we're seeing just such low levels within the population, and we're seeing also the risk that comes from having these low levels. So really important to kind of understand what your numbers are to get tested and to both consume the right fish and also potentially take the right omega three supplements that are from a good source that's been third party tested that's tested for purity potency that doesn't have toxins contaminants. It's not oxidized. It's it's a it's a very hard job picking the right fish oil, but there are companies out there that that actually have good quality fish oil.

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Emma (Producer)
I know recently you and I went really deep into insulin resistance. So does the cell membrane have anything to do with how my cells actually hear the insulin's message?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Absolutely. Your cells receive every single message from every hormone or metabolite or inflammatory molecule or protein. Your cells are... Membranes are the transducer that is used to regulate every biological function, including what's happening inside your cells and your mitochondria, energy of food, and also what's happening with inflammation in your body, what's happening with DNA expression and making proteins, all that's regulated through ultimately this... The health of the cell membrane.

And there there are GLUT four receptors in the cell membranes that have to be functioning well in order for you to be sensitive to insulin. And what happens is we tend to start to get these dysfunctional cell membranes, and it contributes to insulin resistance. So it's kind of a it's kind of a vicious cycle that we get into, but it's really important to pay attention to the health of your cell membranes and to eat the foods that support those membranes and to not do the things that hurt those membranes. And sometimes you can help but something you can't like toxins and mold and things are definitely things that that tend to disrupt memory function. But you can actually improve your membrane function by actually eating the right way and doing doing things in the right way and taking the right supplements.

So really important to make sure that you you understand this because, you know, with insulin resistance, you know, you become more and more dysfunctional. Your insulin signaling becomes disrupted. And and part of how to get that straight is to repair your cell membrane so you have proper signaling through these GLU-four receptors that are embedded within the cell membrane and have to be functioning properly in order for you to be insulin sensitive.

Emma (Producer)
I wanna shift gears and I wanna talk about the brain now. So you always tell us that the brain's mostly fat. Are brain cell membranes different?

Dr. Mark Hyman
I mean, your brain cells are are extremely important for everything. Right? They run your body and they're unique in that your brain is made up of mostly fat. So mostly fat heads. And most of that fat, about 60% is called DHA, which is to go to acinoin acid.

In other words, omega three fats from fish. You can get it from algae too. The DHA you can. But it's so important because, you know, the way the cells communicate, the the membranes of your nerve cells, the synapses where cells, you know, neurotransmitters get community back and forth. All this is happening through membrane function and and also myelin, is what coats your nerve cells.

It sends a signal sign your nerve. All your myelin see this made up of fat. So you have to have healthy fats. And if you don't have that, you won't get proper cell signaling, proper neurotransmitter function, proper brain function, and and it'll affect both brain development if you're deficient in childhood and also brain aging as you get older in terms of Alzheimer's and other cognitive deficits. So your fatty acids, your membrane health, choline, omega threes, etcetera, are so important for your brain.

Emma (Producer)
Could my membrane health affect things that I actually noticed such as my memory, my mood, or my focus?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, if your if your cells are not healthy, you're not healthy. If your brain cells are not working well, your brain isn't working well. And it's just kinda logical that you have to have optimally functioning membranes in your brain cells, in your neurons for you...

Those neurons to work properly, and for your brain to work properly, you don't have brain fog or cognitive deficits or mood disorders or all the things that we see in the brain. So it's really important to take care of those brain membranes, which is the same way you take care of all the memories in your body.

Emma (Producer)
So what about as we age? Do my membranes look different when I'm 60 compared to when they looked when I was 20?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. They're really really can be. And I think a lot of the things that happen as we age lead to things like oxidative stress, more inflammation, mitochondrial dysfunction, damaged proteins, senescent cells which secrete all these inflammatory products, and all that puts a stress on the membrane. Plus often our diets aren't as good, nutritional deficiencies can become worse, particularly if you've been a lifelong not having omega threes, which most people in America have. It just...

It's a cumulative effect. And so you'll end up with these these changes in the in the lipids in the fatty membrane, and you'll end up with poor cell function and then accelerated aging. So keeping your membranes really healthy is important. That's part of why we induce things like autophagy and mitophagy, which are basically self cleaning mechanisms of the body that you incur by fasting or other certain supplements that can do it like urolithin a for mitochondria. But these lead to the repair and renewal of these things.

And it eats up old parts and basically it's like a Pac Man and then processes them and then rebuilds cells from these these kind of parts. Some like kind of auto shop and you're you're taking old parts, you're building a brand new car and remodeling them. So Mhmm. That... That's so important as we age, and that whole process tends to break down.

And that's why we look at the science we see actually in terms of cellular repair and and and and inflammation. All these things are... They're so important, and they happen in part because we we probably pay attention to the health of our cell membranes.

Emma (Producer)
Okay. So we've talked about what it looks like when these membranes are damaged, but what is actually damaging these cells?

Dr. Mark Hyman
I mean, it's a lot of things. Our diet, number one, if we eat a crappy ultra processed diet, that creates a lot of burden on the cells. One, because they're deficient in the nutrients needed to make the healthy cell membranes, and two, because they create more inflammation and oxidative stress. Too much sugar is a huge driver of cellular dysfunction and insulin resistance and oxidative stress that also drives inflammation, another source. Any...

Anything related to inflammation will cause that and that can be changed in your microbiome. It can be toxins, it can be allergens, it can be infections, nutrient deficiencies. As I mentioned, omega threes, choline deficiency, also very important. And when you're low in certain nutrients, can't regulate oxidative stress, inflammation well. And any any toxins like pesticides, herbicides, our cumulative exposure gets more as we get older.

We live in a toxic world and we... Unless we do something about it, and there's lot of things to do remove toxins from your body, but it it they accumulate. And those toxins whether it's mold or petrochemical toxins or metal toxins, they all cause damage to cell memories. And and then aging itself is an inflammatory process. So you're just you're compounding on all these factors.

And so we really wanna pay attention to those things that that not just lead to membrane dysfunction, they lead to aging and disease. All the things I mentioned like in smoking, poor diet, ultra processed food, toxins, inflammatory triggers, allergen inflammation, disruption in the microbiome. Across the whole spectrum, all chronic disease, those are the big players in terms of the causes. So it's it's it's the same thing that's gonna prevent everything else. You just have to pay attention to these because they they they also affect your membranes, and it's important to like focus on not just reducing those things, but also doing things you can do to build your cell membranes back up with the right raw materials.

And that's kind of the bottom line here. There's ways you can eat, there's things you can do, and ways you can live to take better care of your cell membranes.

Emma (Producer)
I want to dive deeper into the thing I often ask you about, which is the testing. So how do I measure this? Am I just going to my doctor and saying, hey, can I get a cell membrane health test? Is that is that what's happening?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. Not really. There... There's no Bergmann test. The best test you can get to get a general idea is the omega three index, which we offer function.

It's inexpensive, it's reliable, it's proven, it tells you really where you are in the spectrum. And everybody should be over 8% of their membranes being omega three fats as opposed to less than 4%, which you run into big problems. There's also more comprehensive fatty acid profiles are done by labs like Kennedy Krieger lab. They're more kind of academic or clinically used. They're pretty complicated patients.

You can look at red cell membrane fatty acids. It's another tool. And you can also look at look at lipidomics, which is looking at your lipids and what produced by the body. And and then there's research measures that that are not really used clinically. So there's no like membrane test, but by looking at your overall health, by measuring things, you can actually see what's going on.

I even use these fatty acid profiles to look at these odd chain fats, and I can tell this membrane's not good. This is something... There's something happening in the body that is creating these funny looking fats that create dysfunctional communication. Think of your memory as like the antenna as the barrier, as the receptor, as a set of communication hub of your body. And so it has to be beautiful and working well.

And and when the memory is not working well because of these damaged membranes, because of toxins, and all these things we mentioned, then your cells just don't do the work that they're supposed to do, and you end up with abnormal signals in the body, and that translates into symptoms and disease.

Emma (Producer)
Alright. So I am always on social media, and I feel like there's always this obvious wellness Internet question, and it's do I need to take supplements to rebuild my membranes?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Yeah. I mean, so yes, you need to think about eating the right way and potentially taking the supplements. So eating, we talked about, which is omega three fats from fatty small fish, and also choline that comes from eggs and soybeans and few other sources. We typically are low in both of those, and they're really the foundational building blocks of your cell membrane. So you can take omega three supplements, you can take phosphatidylcholine supplements, you can take phosphatidylserine supplements.

There's also phospholipids like phosphatidylserine, which makes a part of your cell membranes that regulates cortisol and other things. So you can actually can take things to help support your cell membranes. You can take the right types of fatty acids and actually build the right levels of of these healthy fats in your diet. So you need to eat the right foods including the including the omega six rich foods, are basically seeds and nuts and and some other things even beans. And like soybeans have those fats in them, you know, sesame seeds, nuts and seeds all have these.

So those are the key supplements. There's another emerging category called plasmallogens, which need more data, but they're an interesting cocktail of of compounds that are fatty acids that affect membrane function, and I've seen some clinical benefits from that as well. So there are protocols. There's also kind of a poorly tested, but I think clinically often very effective protocol, which I personally use myself, and I've used with patients with chronic issues like mold, chronic fatigue, toxins, brain health issues, cognitive decline, Parkinson's, that have been quite effective. And involves intravenous phosphatidylcholine at high doses, along with glutathione and other antioxidants and and carnitine and other things that help properly rebuild cell function.

And I personally seen my own cell membranes improve through various testing and diagnostics. I've seen my own brain function improve. So while this hasn't been properly tested, I think it's a really useful tool. I I think it hasn't been tested because these things are not reimbursed by insurance. There's no drug company that's gonna make a lot of money from it.

So I would say the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. And and sometimes we have to sort of look at what we call anic data, which is enough anecdotes that make up data. These are case series and reports and I I think there's a lot there. So to to to say that it's proven is gonna be wrong, and to say that it's clinically useful and I I reserve it for certain patients that have have had real issues. It can be it can be remarkable.

And I've certainly had that with myself because I've had mold toxicity, mercury toxicity. I've had lots of... I'm old and I have a lot of toxic built up in my system. So I've I've seen this really help me and I've seen the removal of these toxins, my membranes get better, my mitochondria get better. All these things improve function and that's that's what's important.

Emma (Producer)
You talked there about some experimental things. Is there anything else that you're seeing that you're actually personally doing because the evidence is strong, but we're not fully there yet for it to be available to the public?

Dr. Mark Hyman
I mean, look, I think I think there's a lot of things that that are part of the cocktail of things that are just good for your health, Also help your membranes. And that includes the omega threes, it includes the fatty fish, choline from things like liver, soy, eggs, and even fish. It means exercise which helps your biological function, memory function involves also make sure you sleep, reducing your toxic exposure. This is the things that are really key. I think supplementing sometimes with phosphocholine in the right settings, so phospho serine with omega three is important.

I think sauna can be helpful. They really help affect heat shock proteins which improve the overall health of the body. And and they help, you know, improve at least on a theoretical basis. This is sort of some of the things that go wrong with aging and some of the damaged proteins that affect mitochondrial function, affect membrane function. And I think you know anything that antioxidants are great because oxidative stress is what damages the membrane.

So that antioxidants can be all lipoic acid, astaxanthin which comes from you know algae. It can be polyphenols from colorful plant foods. All these things are really important in actually regulating oxidative stress which will damage your cell membrane. So controlling that's important. It's not that we eliminate oxidative stress.

It's important cell signaling process. We have the redox process, but we don't we don't wanna over index on it. And most of us are high levels of oxidative stress, ultimately cause a lot of tissue damage, cell damage, membrane damage. And that's something we can we can address through diet, through supplements, other approaches.

Emma (Producer)
Wonderful. So I appreciate your insight on this. As we as we close out, what would be kind of your main takeaway for individuals that are listening or watching to this conversation?

Dr. Mark Hyman
Check your omega three index. Eat fatty smashed fish at least two to three times a week. Have liver, eggs, soy, or take choline supplements on a regular basis. Important. And make sure you reduce your exposures to toxins and mold and metals as much as possible.

And there's lot of ways to do that. The environmental working group is a great resource for that. I'm on the board there. Make sure you're you're actually taking care of yourself through adequate sleep, exercise, whole foods diet, so forth. So you're actually supplying all the raw materials for health, and you're not accelerating memory damage.

So it's just all the common sense stuff. It's just a different lens we're looking at it through The people mostly don't think about which is the membrane health of your body. So basically, want you to understand that memory health isn't about some new biohacking technique. It's actually understanding why some of the age old practices that promote health actually work. It means healthy whole foods diet, healthy fats, omega threes, exercise, sleep, reducing toxic exposure.

These all these things contribute to your health in many ways, but particularly through how they affect the health of your cell memories.

Emma (Producer)
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